In, Brian D. McLaren’s A Generous Orthodoxy, written a few years back, he sketches the “seven different depictions of Jesus in his faith journey.” On page 64, he includes this summary:
1. Conservative Protestant: The human race is guilty of sin therefore Jesus’ death pays the full penalty for human sin.
2. Pentecostal: The human race is held down by disease and poverty. Jesus teaches us to receive miracles and healings from God through faith in God’s promises.
3. Roman Catholic: The human race is enslaved by the fear of death. Jesus’ resurrection defeats death and liberates humanity.
4. Eastern Orthodox: The human race is spiritually sick and needs healing; it has dropped out of the “dance” of creation. Jesus’ entry (or incarnation) into humanity and history brings God’s healing to the human race and all of creation.
5. Liberal Protestant: The human race suffers from ignorance of the teachings and ways of Christ. Jesus’ example and teachings inspire us to work compassionately for social justice.
6. Anabaptist: The human race is divided and violent and needs to learn the ways of Christ in community. Jesus convenes a learning community of disciples who seek to model lives of love and peace.
7. Liberation (nonviolent): Humanity is oppressed by corrupt powers, systems and regimes. Jesus commissions and leads bands of activists to confront unjust regimes and make room for the Shalom of God.
Growing up, I saw Jesus as #1. In High School, because I lived in suburban Detroit, I began to appreciate #3. My first two years of college were all about #2. My last years of undergrad and first year of seminary were focused on Jesus #5. Second year of seminary was #6. The last year of seminary was #7. For the last three years, I've been preaching and (attempting) living out a combination of Jesus #7, #4.
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I don't think any one version or emphasis is necessarily "better" than the other. In fact, I don't think I would've appreciated Liberation Jesus had I not been raised in a family that worshipped Jesus #1.
Which Jesus do you currently subscribe to? Which one would you like to learn more about? Is there one that you deem "heresy"?
35 comments:
Thanks for the good post. Since studying under Lee Camp, I have great admiration for Jesus #6, but I'm still struggling with the practical, daily implications of what it means for us to follow that Jesus. Due to my upbringing, I can't get away from Jesus #1, and I don't want to. I continue to be deeply moved that Jesus lived the life we couldn't live and died the death we should have died, going to hell so we can go to heaven. I probably struggle the most with Jesus #2, because I haven't experienced many "miraculous" answers to prayers and manifestations of the Spirit in my life. That's probably my fault, but it is what it is. I feel like I have a connection with #3,4,5, and 7 as well. I think all these perspectives on Jesus should have a place at the big table called Christianity, and I probably couldn't choose one that I subscribe to more than the others.
I think I am 6 with 1 mixed in. I grew up in a Catholic church, but don't remember how I viewed Jesus. However, I do remember always being scared of sin, death, and darkness.
2, 4, 5 and 7... I wonder if I am also mixed up in 7 and don't know it. I would like to know more about the other three, though.
I remember reading that a few years ago. I too was a 1 growing up, but I would now align myself more with 4 some 6 and traces of 7 in there. I do like the general premise of the book, which if I remember correctly, was the notion that we should learn from each other's experiences and traditions.
The first church I went to after a long break (think 10 years) was Pentecostal and they did preach the disease/poverty stuff. Every service was a very intense push that if you had enough faith you wouldn't be sick or poor anymore. It was almost like a contest to see who could praise the loudest or speak in tongues the longest or lie "passed out" on the floor the longest. I don't know why I told you that.
Anyway, I don't think I subscribe to any of these. Christ is less and less a part of my faith. I don't wake up in the morning and think "what would Christ do today?" or "How would Christ handle this situation?" It's almost like I have my faith and I go about living. If I can help someone, I help them. If there's a moral issue, I lean towards the more typical "Christian" answer, etc. I live the Christian life, but I don't consider myself a follower of Christ. He died on the cross for our sins, and I'm grateful for that and all. I don't know what I'm trying to say. Those are just a few thoughts.
I looked at each of these and am a bit disturbed by Cassandra's answer the most of all. It is because of the "real" Jesus' that McLaren numbered, I think.
I have been labeled a conservative evangelical Christ follower, which has no number in McLaren's list here.
I believe that humanity inherited the sins of Adam due to the Fall, and that disease and poverty are results of living in a world we weren't designed to live in. If we are enslaved by a fear of death, there seems to me that the churches would be filled to capacity instead of x-sports being more and more popular among the younger generations today. I don't believe that we are spiritually sick, we are spiritually depraved of the connection that we were designed to have; with our God and our fellow human beings.
I believe that we suffer not from ignorance of the ways and teachings of Christ, but rather suffer from a self-centered and church taught misdirection of the truth of Christ that, if we followed them to the letter, we would cure the ills of society....starting with men being the men that God designed us to be and not the weak, societially defined model that has weakened our morality. Man was designed to be a warrior, to protect order and beauty. We were created outside the garden and brought in to care for the beauty and order that God designed it to emulated. And, while humanity may be oppressed by corrupt powers, systems, and regimes, it is by the power of the faithful that those things can be changed through the nonviolent battle of the warriors against the principalties of the Evil One.
Christ died upon the Cross to pay the debt that the original sin in its depravity has been placed upon us to allow us to be in pursuit of knowing God intimately and completely so that we can return to the original design of our Creator.
It is, I feel, the doctrinal impurities of the denominations listed and not that have driven us to try and classify the unclassifiable and to respond to Him in a manner that is inconsistent with what Christ spoke of.
God is no respecter of persons and we were designed to honor and worship Him, not the other way around.
Even Christ emulated that during His time on the earth.
Just my thoughts, based on the post. I haven't read the book by McLaren and am surprised by the 'seven different depictions of Jesus in His faith journey.'
This book by McLaren is my only experience with him so far and I am disappointed that no one has dogged McLaren on this post yet!!
I think I am somewhere between a 1 and a 5
Cassandra, McLaren actually speaks to your pentecostal experience in the book.
Navel Pride, I think based on your description you are a 1
I really enjoyed the book. I think McLaren does a nice job of summarizing each version and hitting the high points and the low points.
Navalpride
Sorry for misspelling your name, I did not mean any disrespect
Matt,
Our journey's are very similar!
Courtney, I'll give you more stuff to read about the "liberation" Jesus.
Luke, it also paints a vision for what Christianity can look and sound like over the next twenty years.
Cassandra,
Thanks for your honesty. You don't have to be a Christian of any stripe to post on this blog. Obviously I feel differently but you are welcome to post at any time.
Naval Pride: "conservative evangelical" is number one.
You articulate a very succinct and clear understanding of Jesus. But is only one understanding. For instance, your paragraphs are more a summary passed down in history. But the NT is much more nuanced and diverse than you suppose. My opinion.
Kyle: Great hanging out with you and the guys tonight, I'm blessed to know you!
McLaren isn't as controversial as some make him out to be . . . or some want him to be.
He does challenge all who read.
Thank you, Josh and Kyle, for your comments. I love to be stretched and grow in the pursuit of my faith. I mean that.
I would have to agree that the NT is more than I originally thought and I am still learning. I appreciate the opportunity to learn. I appreciate your opinions also.
Cassandra, I appreciate your honesty too and hope that my post did not imply otherwise.
Jim
Jim,
No worries. We love your passion!
"Jesus and His Death" by Scot McKnight is a great scholarly introduction to the many facets of atonement.
Also, Gustaf Aulen has a classic work "Christus Victor." In case you are interested.
Has anyone else read any excellent "atonement" books recently?
Josh-
I prefer Bible Jesus, who is not listed as an option. Bible Jesus is the historical Jesus who was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed countless miracles, resisted the proud, gave grace to the humble and loved the poor. He did all of this for His Fathers glory then as the prophet wrote it pleased God the Father to crush Him and cause Him to suffer, that he may pay the fines of the transgressions of many. Bible Jesus is coming back in flaming fire with His mighty angels to take vengance on all of those who know not God and obey not His Gospel.
Every person here has sinned against God by violating His holy laws. Every lie, every lustful though, sexually immoral act, blapshemous word, hateful or greedy intention is worthy of death and eternal punishment. God is a Good, just, and Holy God and He does not wink at sin (the transgressions of His laws and precepts). Every transgression must and will be punished, and anyone whos sins are not covered by the Fathers exclusive and perfect sacrafice (through being born again) will be thrown into the eternal trash dump where there is weeping and nashing of teeth. There is salvation in no-one else.
This is as much (and of much more eternal importance) the Gospel as feeding the poor. You see it is possible for someone who is not born again but has a measure of religion to fed the poor, this is caled humanism and it is an abomination to God. Most emergent church authors including Brian Mclaren are antichrist humanists, who preach another Gospel, not the one Jesus and the apostles preach. It leads men through religion and pride (humanistic good works) into the eternal trash dump.
Unless a man is born again he can not enter into the kingdom. This is the Gospel. And on the flip side if anyone be in Christ they are a new creation, set apart to do the work of God here on this side of eternity. This work includes feeding and clothing the poor as much as it does preaching the true Gospel of sin, rightousness and judgement to come. Not a false watered down, culturaly relavent gospel.
Satan is so sly.
hey kids - look at what a bunch of hypocritical pew warmers your parents gerenation our (so true)
You dont want to be like them do you (of course not)
I have a much cooler idea of how we can worship God (insert baal worship) just read my book a generous orthodoxy. No cross, no regeneration, no repentance for sin, just a little social justice... a devils gospel indeed invented in hell.
Run for your life from the teachings of these ministers of satan who masquarade as angels of light. (2 Cor 11)
Wish I could write more, but know this dear friends if you are not born again (radically made a brand new creation in Christ, given new thought, a haterd for wordliness and sin, a love for the poor, and most of the witness of the Holy Spirit) though repentance from dead works and faith in Christ alone you have no part in Christs Kingdom here or in eternity. Your good works are nothing but filthy rags (menstrual rags) in God sight and you remain His enemy and object of His wrath despite your church attendance and charitable works or the fact you've been dunked in water.
In Christ - Jim
Anonymous Jim,
I bet you are a blast to hang out with (he said with sarcasm).
Whenever you are sure that God hates the same people/ideas/language you do, that's how you know you've created God in your own image.
Matt,
Have you tried teaching the anabaptist Jesus at your local church? Did you use Camp? How did that go (if so)?
Jim-it's funny to me that you signed your first post, in Christ,
It sure is coming off that way...
As for me, I find myself in #4 and #6 while being immersed more and more in #7.
John,
That is what the religous people said about Jeremiah, John the Baptist, and Christ Himself, not to mention the early Church. That they were "not being nice" so they were not from God. The false prophets were always popular nice guys because they told the religous people what they wanted to hear, Christ told the people what they needed to hear and they crucified Him. John the Baptist was beheaded, jeremiah was thrown in a well. The Apostle paul was stoned nad caused a riot.
By your logic
nice to the ears = of God
hard words = not of God
This stands in glaring contrast to Biblical history and truth. May we always care more for the glory of God and the souls of men their feelings.
In Christ - Jim
PS
here is a great youtube video called allow me to re introduce the Christ. A powerful poem well worth the watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJ5oi1cw2I
I didn't mean for my thoughts to disturb anyone. I was just saying what I thought. Josh, you know me, I thought you of all people would understand. I don't want to cause waves though. I'm sorry.
Jim-I am not sure what, or who, you are referring to when you talk about, "religious people telling people what they want to hear."
If you are talking about Josh, than I have a real problem with that. I love to sell Josh out any chance I can, but I am not sure what angle you're coming from here. All Josh has done for me the past few years is tell me everything that I DON'T want to hear. He has challenged me to get uncomfotable with some things, meaning experiences, reading different texts, and through conversation.
You're not saying ANYTHING! Possibly you have something to share that could be beneficial to people, but to me you just sound like an angry person trying to attack someone.
Although I read this blog frequently, I very rarely post, however, you seem to always have a problem with what is being said...maybe you should think about staying at "fleebabylon"
john-
You have just done the same thing you accused me of, adding nothing to the conversation. At least I added a ton of scripture. Everything I wrote in that first post can be searched for and read in context in the word of God. Sorry if I did not add chapter and verse, but it is all scripture.
- Jim
While I think all of those "Jesuses" have at least some truth in them, I think the key aspect of Jesus that needs to be emphasized is Jesus' gift of salvation. That was His primary aim in coming to Earth. Once we have come to "that" Jesus, then we can discuss all the "other" ones. Again, I believe all of those "Jesuses" are valid on some level, but putting too great an emphasis on any of them over the others has the potential to lead to errors (i.e., "If you're poor, you're obviously not spiritual enough").
Also, I don't think that the Bible should be used as a weapon to attack people with. While I do believe there are times when "tough love" is called for, the emphasis should always be on "love", not tearing others down or building ourselves up. Its certainly not always easy to do, but I believe it is necessary in order to be effective in correcting and in being an example of Christ to others.
I would have to agree with you crazy saint.....that is the commonality that hit me with the different types. Although I seem to sprout "more a summary passed down in history" than my friend (at least I hope he is!) Josh does, I can respect his opinions even if I don't agree with some of them.
It's called a discussion, Jim.
Cassandra, I apologize if my comments are coming off as me being disturbed, although I disagree with you on it, I can respect your decision to believe it and respect the strength it takes to say it in a crowd of opposing opinions. Please accept my apologies if I made you feel sorry about posting. I try not to do so.
As Josh said, I am a conservative evangelical...seems like we get somebody mad most of the time at us 'antiques'.. lol, just jokin..
Jim...if you cannot respect the rights of another american to have an opinion different than yours, how are you following Jesus' example of agape love? Matthew was a tax collector, Judas was a zealot, the other Judas was a betrayer......yet over and over again Jesus speaks of his love for them.
To disagree with someone, you have to be in relationship with them. Otherwise you just blow hot air.
My opinions and I apologize to Josh, Cassandra, and the others if I've offended......
i think I'm a combination of 4 and 7 all the way-but, you know, I am currently questioning things. Have to be honest ya know?
Free Babylon Jim: Is there anything redeeming or beneficial in understand the various American understandings of Jesus as described by McLaren?
John: I can't believe you posted on a blog. Wow. Apocalypse is upon us.
Cassandra. No need to apologize. You were being honest.
Naval Pride. I'm glad you weigh in. You have strong and passionate positions.
Cassie. Questioning is one of the healthiest attributes of a spiritual seeker.
Crazy Saint: Of course salvation is important...however...the central element of Jesus' teaching and life, according to the gospels is "the Kingdom of God." I think the heart of understanding Jesus is the kingdom. Figuring out what Jesus meant by the kingdom is the great adventure.
Josh,
I don't think I've ever used the word "passivism" in a teaching at our church, because I know a lot of our people would stop listening to me at that moment. But I teach the Sermon on the Mount all the time, and certainly Lee's ideas have shaped the way I'm teaching the Jesus way, along with Dallas Willard's Divine Conspiracy. (I'm pretty sure I've quoted Mere Discipleship in some sermons.) Jesus' teachings seem to be well received in our church body, even when he challenges us and makes us uncomfortable, because all of us know deep down that we need to be better people, that we need to treat others like we want to be treated, that we need to be more loving, joyful, and peaceful. Thanks for leading others in the way of Christ.
Matt
p.s. Maybe sometime in the future, our Wed. night adult class could read Mere Discipleship together and use the Study Guide that you and Lee did together. Now that would be a whole lot of fun!
Jim,
I encourage you to go and learn what this means, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." If you do, you will not condemn the innocent.
Grace and peace,
Matt
I definitely grew up in a church that taught a combination Jesus of #1, 3 and 7. It was a slightly Southern American church set in the community context of a formidable military base. We were taught all kinds of facets of Jesus, but they all implied a need to actively live out our faith and be grateful for the price already paid to redeem.
I've had many life experiences since those formative years that have taught me to look for the Jesus described by #4 -- to know there is beauty still left in a life redeemed. To see a Christ that is magnificently attractive because of how He loves and how He challenges. That impact in my life is what makes it possible for me to truly love others. When I look through a multi-faceted filter of Jesus made by #1, 4 and 7, I can people as God's creation. That's makes them worthy of loving regardless of my own agenda. It removes me from the picture, so I can be the instrument God wants in His Kingdom on earth.
I love that feeling. . .of being empty and at the same time filled by an ocean of God's presence ready to pour out on those around me. I love walking behind that Christ and having the dust of His feet all over me.
Matt,
IF you do decide to do the Camp book and the study guide (out this June I believe...shameless plug) let me know how it goes. I'd love feedback.
Dana,
I love that you've included "creation" in your religious vocab--that's not the case with much of evangelical discourse.
The blogging will slow down a bit as I prepare to live in Cass Park next week with students and young adults from RC.
"In, Brian D. McLaren’s A Generous Orthodoxy, written a few years back, he sketches the “seven different depictions of Jesus in his faith journey.” On page 64, he includes this summary:
1. Conservative Protestant: The human race is guilty of sin therefore Jesus’ death pays the full penalty for human sin.
2. Pentecostal: The human race is held down by disease and poverty. Jesus teaches us to receive miracles and healings from God through faith in God’s promises.
3. Roman Catholic: The human race is enslaved by the fear of death. Jesus’ resurrection defeats death and liberates humanity.
4. Eastern Orthodox: The human race is spiritually sick and needs healing; it has dropped out of the “dance” of creation. Jesus’ entry (or incarnation) into humanity and history brings God’s healing to the human race and all of creation.
5. Liberal Protestant: The human race suffers from ignorance of the teachings and ways of Christ. Jesus’ example and teachings inspire us to work compassionately for social justice.
6. Anabaptist: The human race is divided and violent and needs to learn the ways of Christ in community. Jesus convenes a learning community of disciples who seek to model lives of love and peace.
7. Liberation (nonviolent): Humanity is oppressed by corrupt powers, systems and regimes. Jesus commissions and leads bands of activists to confront unjust regimes and make room for the Shalom of God.
Growing up, I saw Jesus as #1. In High School, because I lived in suburban Detroit, I began to appreciate #3. My first two years of college were all about #2. My last years of undergrad and first year of seminary were focused on Jesus #5. Second year of seminary was #6. The last year of seminary was #7. For the last three years, I've been preaching and (attempting) living out a combination of Jesus #7, #4.
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I don't think any one version or emphasis is necessarily "better" than the other. In fact, I don't think I would've appreciated Liberation Jesus had I not been raised in a family that worshipped Jesus #1.
Which Jesus do you currently subscribe to? Which one would you like to learn more about? Is there one that you deem "heresy"?"
Josh, as it should be no surprise to you, I take issue with McLaren. His rejection of absolute truth causes me worry. I'd much rather preach the truth in love while performing acts of kindness. If our entire aim is to solve social problems, the church becomes a glorified Rotary club.
I find myself as a mix of number one and six. I hold to absolute truth and find community to mean fellowship among believers. I find accountability a lost art in our churches. We need to strengthen small groups in the church as Jesus did in his day.
I also would be careful about using labels altogether though. We can't put God in a box. As a former pentecostal, our church used tambourines but never talked about disease and was not a part of the "faith movement". Be cautious not to use labels.
it is very interesting that you would warn someone about using labels....when in fact, that is what you love to do!
Haha, now that's ironic coming from someone who is "anonymous".
Josh, I appreciate your opinions and there is no doubt a great adventure in discovering the fullness of Jesus' teachings and what they mean for us in our lives. However, surely the over-riding reason for his coming to Earth and dying on the cross was for our salvation. I certainly don't believe this is what you are trying to do; however, there are many who either toss out salvation altogether or de-emphasize it until Jesus becomes nothing more than a great activist for social justice. Another Ghandi. Ghandi may have been a great man, but he didn't save anyone's soul. That is what separates Jesus from every other person who ever lived - only He can save us. As long as we hold that in its proper place, we can discuss doing good works, making social changes and all the other great things that are encompassed in His teachings and absolutely should be an essential part of our lives.
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