16 December 2007

Liars Go to Hell

Just this week, standing on the corner of Auburn and Rochester Road, was a middle-aged white male. Some of you know who I am talking about.

Normally, this would not draw the attention of onlookers as Rochester is predominantly white. This person was doing something unusual for he wore a large sign that read:

Revelation 21:8
LIARS GO TO HELL!


Kara first sited this man and reported to me via cell phone. This happened about a week ago. I responded to her journalistic reporting by stating, “Can you get a picture?” She was driving at the time, and thus, could not get a discernible picture.

As if the story could not get any stranger . . . my “liars-go-to-hell-sign-wearing-friend” held, in the hand not supporting the large sign under discussion, a miniature Santa Clause holding a camera.

“I suppose it is Christmas,” I muttered the first time I noticed, as I drove through Rochester, the figurine of the man from the North Pole.

I’ve heard several people comment on the new Rochester messenger throughout this week.

On Friday, I met a friend for lunch in Troy, the town right next to Rochester. I was early, for once, and noticed the “liars-go-to-hell-sign-wearing-friend” standing at a main intersection.

Santa was also with him, I should add. In his hand. With the previously mentioned photograph device.

I looked at my watch. “He won’t be here for another few minutes,” I thought remembering that my lunch partner had to stop at an ATM machine before meeting me for some Mexican food.

I’ve been thinking, reading, and writing a lot about reconciliation lately. The one constant in all of my reading is “going to the other.” Whether it’s the Tutsi going to the Hutu (Rwanda), the uptight urban-city-slicker going to the rural simpleton (work) or the victim approaching the perpetrator (countless scenario’s)— there’s something profound about one person, despite tension or awkwardness, going to another in genuine respect, searching for authentic understanding.

While some think it's the passive/weak/idealistic way . . . I think it is the harder way. What's easier: to avoid confrontation and tension or to embrace it? Nine times out of ten we choose the former while the latter offers the greatest potential for insight and, on the rare occasion, healing.

So I walked. Carefully. And slowly. Towards the man wearing the loud sign.

“Sir, can I talk to you?” I asked. No response.
“I’m not here to argue. I just want to talk. My name is Josh. I’m a minister.”

Apparently, the “minister angle” didn’t bring me anymore credibility. He only stared beyond me.

“Will you talk to me? . . . You won’t talk to me?” I was getting a bit agitated. I mean, I came all the way out here to . . . well, this story isn’t about me.

Then our eyes met. And I knew it when I saw it. It’s almost impossible to explain what “it” is. It’s like the innate ability of a point guard to find the open man in a critical juncture of the game. Or the negotiator, in the moment of intense drama, who knows the precise words that need to be spoken.

I did not find anger in his eyes.

I did not stumble upon arrogance.

I did not even locate confusion.

Instead I found the most dangerous thing in the world when mixed with religion.

I found fear.

So, I walked away knowing what is so true in all of us. Deep down, all of us wrestle fear. Fear of rejection. Fear of failure. Fear of mediocrity. Fear of . . .

Tonight, before I sleep, I’ll pray for this man, whoever he is. Because, ironically enough, he’s not afraid of me or you or Rochester. He’s afraid of God. I know plenty of people in that boat. Just because he’s rather transparent about it, doesn’t mean I should love him any less than I love my wife, or you.

29 comments:

Klint Pleasant said...

i saw this guy as well josh, wondered what the deal was. is he protesting the fact that we teach our kids to believe in santa??? thanks for stopping and trying to talk to him, i agree, confrontation and hitting things head on is sometimes the "hard right."
kp

Sean Stockman said...

I am one of the few who apparently did not see this guy. Josh I like reading your blog because its filled with stories like this. You step out of what is comfortable and go and talk to people, and enter their lives...thats cool man! Thanks for sharing.

Josh Graves said...

Klint: great point . . . perhaps it's a social commentary related to the fact that many tell their kids to believe in Santa and Jesus until they are old enough to be enlightened that Santa is not, in fact, real.

Sean: Look for him in the coming weeks. I'm not giving up. I'm determined to have a conversation with him!

Josh Graves said...

My friend Jon posted these comments,
"perhaps his fear wasn't god but you.

do you think people have approached him before and mocked him and possibly attacked him?

he is merely standing outside and quoting scripture. if you believe the bible to be the literal word of god. then you have to agree with that scripture. of course, it isn't the whole story. but he is focusing on one part. just as you are focusing on one part.

both of you are wearing plackards on the side of the road. and cars drive by."

That might be true. What I was getting at, however, is the question concerning what put him on the street in the first place. And that, I'm certain, is the result of morbid, intrinsic fear.

Anonymous said...

For the record, Josh, I don't think you are pulling out one passage and wearing a placard... even metaphorically. There is nothing about redemption and reconciliation in what this man is doing so it is legitimate to wonder what is in his mind.

Anonymous said...

"There is nothing about redemption and reconciliation in what this man is doing so it is legitimate to wonder what is in his mind."

A quick read of Ezekiel 12 would be appropriate. Perhaps God sent him with specific instructions NOT to talk anyone though. Perhaps those who preach and follow false American "gospels" of compromise such as greed / prosperity, cheap grace or emergent humanism should fear the Lord more. It is the beginning of all wisdom, though it won't win over the crowds and keep the pews full though.

-An anonymous guy on the side of the cyber road as it is

Josh Graves said...

Anonymous

I allow such comments on this blog because I believe in free speech. However, I rarely ever respond to people who are not willing to put their name next to their comments. Where I come from, if you are not willing to let your opinion be known, your opinion should come under necessary (extra!) scrutiny.

That policy isn't full-proof, but it has proved the wiser most of the time.

FYI.

Anonymous said...

My Favorite is when someone posts anonymously on you Blog and then a different person posts anonymously as anonymous and recanting the previous post, apologizing for the previous post, etc.

Good old Anonymous!

Josh Graves said...

This has to be from someone in my small group, hence the identity Gentle Pirate.

I'll explain that title in an ensuing blog.

It can't be Ryan Peasley for he doesn't read blogs.

It can't be Aaron--he's too busy getting ready for our church musical.

I doubt it's Craig for he's busy saving people's lives in Detroit's finest hospitals.

I don't think it's Adam because the language doesn't sound vintage Miller.

I therefore deduce that Kyle has too much time on his hands because he's pretending to appear busy at work while all the meanwhile sabotaging what was a great post.

Josh Graves said...

OR . . .it could be Neil who's come out of the woodwork for this little prank.

Hmmmm . . .

Luke said...

Good story Graves.
We have had an outbreak of street preachers recently in Panama City. These yellers seem misguided. Its easier to yell than to serve.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Josh, you are correct in the sense that I am NOT the gentle pirate.

I have seen this man on the corner 4 different days in the past week. I will call you the next time he is at 16 & Roch.

Though I dont agree w/ him on his tactic, I feel we must careful the judgments and labels we put on those trying to convey Gods message. For I feel we are all doing that, in our own way.

I personally would like to approach him, but I have come to realize it is more benefitial to ask the questions I intend to ask, to the man in the mirror.

Last thing, this strange man has been the starter or focal point of 5 or 6 serious discussions between myself and family and friends, re: Christmas, dicipleship, etc...

Adam Miller

Josh Graves said...

I disagree.

And I find it humorous that you are judging my "judging." Ha, it is a never-ending circle.

While it is beneficial to begin with the man in the mirror, that does not mean that we can never question someone, or seek to know his motives, beliefs, etc. I've treated the man with respect and dignity . . . but I'm not going to avoid the perception he continues to advance about God and Christianity. People like this make the "good news" into bad news. Sure, the Gospel is about judgment, but is also about invitation--a new way of experiencing life . . .life now, not just heaven.

Christianity is dying in the United States. Look around our neighborhoods and in our own backyard, the Churches of Christ. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is the fact that many depicted a God of Anger, Judgment, and Wrath. And while, that is certainly a picture of God, it is incomplete, and therefore damaging.

All I'm trying to do is to help others see the widest, deepest, biggest picture of God possible. I do so knowing that I can't ever fully accomplish such a feat.

But, if I see someone misrepresenting God, I can't help but speak up.

Anonymous said...

Luke said:
"We have had an outbreak of street preachers recently in Panama City. These yellers seem misguided. It’s easier to yell than to serve."

The yellers (not sticking up for the guys who wear "god hates fags" signs) are doing what Noah, Jeremiah, Jonah, Paul, Peter and Christ Himself did. Time to put down the NOOMA videos and abandon the civilized American "gospel" that pretends to love people more then Christ and the first century Church did. It is hard to be a yeller, especially being in such a lukewarm and Babylonian church age as we have in America.

To imply that street preachers don't also serve displays personal arrogance, dishonesty and folly concerning the Biblical preaching of the Gospel.

Josh said:
"People like this make the "good news" into bad news"

We live in a nation full of false converts who believe themselves "Christians" because they asked Jesus "into their hearts", repeated a prayer at youth camp or were dunked in water. Yet according to their fruit most are clearly not converted (1 John 3) A look at a few Barna polls will undeniably show this.

Jesus said that few would be saved, though many would try to enter in so the bad news is that the vast majority of people including professing Christians and church goers in modern America will spend eternity in a lake of fire (not hell/hades/sheol) for their sin against a Holy God, the greatest of which is claiming to know His son but continuing on in their lies, theft, lust, greed, and other willful rebellion. So in that sense, the guy is right on, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. Contrary to popular belief man is still a sinful creature and God is still a Holy God and apart from His true grace that not only pardons but regenerates us we deserve nothing less then the fiery furnace as Jesus said.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the Santa clause and camera evangelism method, but I would have thought the same thing of the prophet Ezekiel if I were alive back then and saw him dig a hole in the city wall. Now, if it turns out this guys method draws numbers then I'm sure we'll all be reading books titled "Velvet Santa Guy" and "Purpose driven Santa evangelism" and standing on the corner ourselves.

-The first anonymous person again, sorry to do this to you Josh, just the way it is

Josh Graves said...

Wow. I have to assume that this last anonymous post was NOT Adam or the Gentle Pirate (he wrote trying not to laugh).

I don't even know where to begin.

I'm amazed that someone would write with such passion then hide behind "anonymous"--I put my opinions, as heretical as they are according to some, out there in plain view.

It's one thing to keep your identity concealed on the Declaration of Independence. It's another thing to avoid using your own identity on a blog read by less than a hundred people a day.

Luke said...

Dear Anonymous,

I do agree with you that Christianity and conversion has been watered down in our "Christian" culture.
But while it is not out of the question to infer from my statement that he (the yeller) is not serving, that wasn't my intention. I was really saying that it is easier to yell at people than serve people. I hope he does serve. I just don't think yelling at outsiders is the way to reverse the watering down effect of Christendom.
For the sake of discussion I think Jesus and the Church are our best examples to follow. I am not sure when Jesus yelled at people outside of God's insiders, could you point me to where that is? I think when Peter preached at people in Acts 2- it was a response not a verbal assault. People were amazed at what God was doing and therefore were interested. That seems to be different then what these are doing.
I think the virtual anonymity which you hide behind is analogous to the anonymity people hide behind when they yell instead of enter into real relationships. And deception never brings the Kingdom of Heaven which is the panacea for a watered down society.
And just to clarify, these yellers that I am specifically referring to are the "God hates fags" variety.

Anonymous said...

Josh-this is great conversation, however, I am excited for you to post why you are supporting Huckabee in '08...

Anonymous said...

Josh, I used my name in the only post I made, you are correct our anonymous friend is not me.

Please dont take my 1st post as "judgement" of you. Your attempt to hear what he had to say is honorable. (I am curious to hear what he has to say,myself)

You have found a topic that many have wanted to discuss, and it shows us all that we just want to please God and be with him in Heaven.

Adam

Josh Ross said...

WOW!!! Go to a luncheon and a staff meeting and you miss out on an entire conversation.
We are "stories." We all have one. We all are one. Graves, I interpret your attempt to converse with this guy as a humble attempt to hear his story. What is it that makes this guy want to use his presence to declare the message "Liars go to hell"? If you had one shot to stand on a street corner in order to hold a verse for all to see, surely there has to be pain or a baptism into poor theology, that would cause one to hold up those 4 words.

As for anonymous, don't hide behind the title. It is cowardice.

For those of you chilling in the cold Detroit area, please take a picture of this guy. Those of us in the far south want to have a picture to go with the post.

Anonymous said...

for the sake of reconciliation I will clarify that I posted as the Gentle Pirate.

I do not want to muddy the waters too much because I am kind of muddy about these issues myself. I don't like that Santa street preacher guys style but I can appreciate the message. I wish that the street preacher at least was more of a go-getter (said snidely) like holding a sign in front of a bar or strip club or even a mall holding a sign against, Drunkenness, Lust or Greed. Get a message that lots of people can get behind. But going after Santa I think is a losing proposition. Yeah I get it, it is still a lie and liars go to hell, but I still think that going after some of the other commandments might be more beneficial...to start.

shifting the topic slightly...
I can not think of any biblical examples of preaching the message Anonymously. I would not call it a lie but I do think it lacks honesty. Perhaps if the apostles had preached more anonymously they would have lived longer lives.

Velvet Santa? Purpose Driven Santa??? FANTASTIC!
If anonymous does not reveal himself (assumption) I would love to at least know more about Anonymous. Like Anonymous is in his Mid 20's Went to Rochester College, hated the liberalism of the college. Maybe got his Bible Degree there. Does not attend any church regularly because they all suck in some way or another. Etc.
Help me out with at least a little perspective!

Eric said...

I would say that this is a difficult discussion, especially coming from the Churches of Christ, where Christmas has traditional NOT been celebrated as a Christian holiday. Since we don't know when Jesus' real birthday was, we cannot connect Christmas with the Incarnation. At this point in our history, this is obviously more of a caricature, but I still hear this argument from folks in the Churches of Christ today.

Now, for those who have grown up with those roots, the holiday season has often been more about Santa, gifts, and food than it has about anticipating the work of God breaking into our world, about God's light shining into our darkness, about anxiously awaiting the second coming of the Messiah, as many awaited the first so long ago.

Into that world, we in the Churches of Christ are struggling to redeem this season, to recover (if not discover for the first time) that sense that God is somehow redeeming all of time and redeeming what it means to be human through the Incarnation and that we have a chance to be reminded of that at this time of year. (I know that I'm not smart enough to contemplate the full breadth of God's work in Christ all at once, so I have to focus on small parts at a time. I'll save the death and resurrection for a little later.)

On street preachers, the gospel, and anonymity... I am constantly humbled by the diversity of Scripture, God's continuing revelation in the world, and the church. Just when I think that I've got my head around it, I read something in Scripture or from church history, or from one of the deeply faithful spiritual writers from the last 2K years and I'm humbled at the beauty of the diversity. I guess it only makes sense coming from the God who is manifest to the world as Trinity. I see Jesus doing a lot of street preaching, but the harsh language was primarily directed at the religious elite. Maybe that means that he took his street preaching inside the church. While he spoke truth to those on the margins of the religious community, it was almost always truth spoken in love, as our good friend Paul would write. Speaking of Paul, he tended to speak incredibly provocative and powerful things to his churches, but, again, that was to those on the inside. He also called those same people to show kindness and compassion to those outside. It's always a more complex thing than we might make it. We ALL tend to build up straw men on the other side of our arguments. That's the easiest way to try to justify our own positions. Yet the truth is always more complicated than that. May the gospel continue to break into all of our lives, stirring all of us from our slumbers, calling us to continue to walk in the transformative way of Jesus. Oh, and I am all for the gift of free speech, but I think that anonymity is simply a guerrilla tactic. I don't think that it's fair to attack someone anonymously. All of the powerful figures named in anonymous' post had names and were associated with their actions, however psychedelic! This anonymity thing goes against speaking truth because truth is always embodied, as it was in Jesus, who said I am the Way, Truth, and Life.

Josh, I'm thankful that you approached this person, but more thankful that you called him "friend" in your post. I hope and pray that this person will become a friend with a name that's more formal than “liars-go-to-hell-sign-wearing-friend”.
Who knows, maybe the very fact that we're having this conversation is means that this gentleman has achieved his goal. We live in a society where the darkness of Advent is now ushered in by "black Friday" and Christmas is consummated with the coming of Santa. While I might not agree with this man's message or method, maybe he has allowed all of us to encounter the terrifying beauty of Emmanuel to come and dwell in our hearts anew this holy season.

May God's grace be with us all as we continue to struggle to be the living embodiment of Christ's presence in the world each day.

Eric said...

BTW, I've gotta type faster, or without the interruptions of a 15 month old! From the time I started typing to posting, something like 6 new comments popped up! Everything I said seems so passe now. Of course, I'm pretty sure everything I said is all garbage anyway.

Josh Graves said...

Fresh from the treadmill and weight-room where a student commented, "I've never seen a preacher workout before"--I have enjoyed catching up on what I missed out on.

I have to back to the church building to water down faith, practice pluralism, and ruin Christianity.

It's going to be a long night.

I'm sure I'll have something to say tonight or in the morning.

Josh Ross-we'll work on getting you a picture.

Josh Graves said...

I think several good points have been made.

First, there certainly needs to be room for odd methods of communication as witnessed in the prophets of Israel. For example, God does instruct Jeremiah to go and bury his underwear in the ground.

Second, All of us present partial elements of the Christian story, and thus, need to be reminded of elements that we tend to ignore.

Third, some suggest that "all" American Christianity is corrupt, weak, and bankrupt. I don't buy that.

As hard as I am towards Christianity of the 1950's (racism, sexism, etc.) it is also true that this is perhaps the greatest evangelistic generation in the last four centuries.

Each generation has its huckster's, and imposter's. Each also has its saints, prophets and risk-takers.

I suppose the gist of what I was trying to capture in the blog is best stated by re-hashing Luke's great comment:

"I was really saying that it is easier to yell at people than serve people. I hope he does serve. I just don't think yelling at outsiders is the way to reverse the watering down effect of Christendom.For the sake of discussion I think Jesus and the Church are our best examples to follow. I am not sure when Jesus yelled at people outside of God's insiders, could you point me to where that is?"

Peace on earth. Peace in blogger-land too.

May God's grace cover our short-comings. All of our short-comings.

Klint Pleasant said...

Josh:
Man, since when have you become mister controversy? Quite a discussion going on here... Remember, "dont wrestle with the pig because you both get dirty and the pig likes it."

Just wanted to let you know that you missed a great game tonight. RC v. OU. Great game, it took all OU had to beat us. There were several old warriors in attendance and I thought of you. Have a good holiday and look forward to lunch soon...

KP

Anonymous said...

Today I was down in Taylor picking up the last remnants of my life as it was and I saw him on the corner of Telegraph and Eureka. I have been reading this all along and all I have left to say is,

Wow, this guy was young. Wasn't expecting that. It is so sad to see someone this young so jaded.

Anonymous said...

OH and his sign said, Hell is real, Liars go there. Rev 21:8 when is saw him.

I really don't think it is a simple as lying about Christmas and Santa.

Josh Graves said...

Tammy,

Apparently, he's making his rounds all over the Greater Detroit area.

Thanks for the note . . . I'll check out your blog.

Josh Graves said...

Klint,

I saw the box score on ESPN earlier . . . I was at our rehersal for our big Christmas production last night.

Otherwise, I would've been there. I was proud of my boys against UofD a month ago.